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Politicians and the press…



BBC sounds music Radio podcasts high and this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 hello this morning sir Keir starmer delivered his first speech to a packed in person labour conference political hacks are now as I speak frantically pending their hot takes Saturday we explore Keir starmer's current relationship with the media does he have the same level of newspaper backing that a Tony Blair for example enjoyed do the newspapers hold much sway over public opinion anyway, and what about those new outlets the emerged during Jeremy corbyn's time with power shifting to the centre of the party.

How do their roles now? Let me introduce you to my guests Jane Merrick is policy editor at the I newspaper and before that she was political editor of The Independent on Sunday

I see you've been on Twitter today with your assessment of starmer speech tell me we just go to Twitter first order they wait for your in-depth analysis and it was a very long speech actually so I ended up to it and I think about 72 weeks.

I guess it's a mix.

I mean you know the first take is a few weeks as he's speaking actually going to be writing a piece of halfway present and about what is policy agenda is and whether that's enough for him to win the next election with the policies that he's put on display off to go but all these a policy that can win labour the next election co-founder of Novara media and independent left wing media company in out.

I've been looking at the Navara website.

You've got an op-ed saying that starmer is just as dishonest as Boris Johnson there's another headlined starmer Riggs the rules now.

Is that the kind of

That is the reason your reader's go to Navara at and not the mainstream media and under the thesis of that is available for anybody wants to go and read it in terms of reporting.

We have reported the first port of call the people who can see my consent that won't be an article general through our YouTube channel.

We had a show Princes tonight 7 p.m.

On my YouTube channel which will look conference as well as other stories across today.

We have 3 of those a week.

So princess is audiovisual that doesn't mean it's Facebook and Twitter actually increasingly its YouTube and Instagram but we do try to yap was cover multiple spaces podcast articles explainers and video is the founder of the London economic another.

Only outlet Jack I see you have a piece headlined Brits are flogging petrol on Facebook for quadruple the pump price that nearly half of Britain's Holden Media most responsible for petrol stations running out of fuel, so what do you say to that what you think? I think this is obviously chaos at the you know we were tipped off about a story about how people are so brazenly attempting to sell 10 L of petrol for solid 50 quid and look at the cause of the current fuel prices.

Is it down to sort of like a handful of petrol and then it spiralled into sort of a huge story but there's no smoke without fire.

So yes the media has had a role in sort of however.

You know what sort of Media you know I'm social media you have photos and videos.

Long queues and B suppliers in the media think that a lot of people certainly would be saying you know make sure that you definitely consume picture of sensibly and and and and that sort of thing about a car is in Frontline workers as the priority but we also publish your story at the same time so I'm looking back to a select committee report from 26 quite clear detail how the government was born about all of this happening within a month of the brexit referendum.

So so as I say no smoke without fire and Laura O'Reilly is media editor at Insider and Lara before we get into the politics.

Let's start with you because Netflix is CEO Ted sarandos a former Media show guest has been speaking to the press this week.

So what was he saying? What's interesting is this week Netflix

Data that doesn't usually put out and what is data to do if is it scanner most popular shows know a couple of surprising findings from that and I get a big one is there it's new Korean language language series of school squidgame which is basically like a Korean version of Hunger Games not only could be its biggest non-english series of all time but he did it could be its biggest show ever and it's really interesting because it's one it's interesting show it's a real feast for the eyes.

It's got great reviews but too it's just it's interesting to see can of international content having such a big play in in the US in the UK why do you think he is giving out this sorted data because they have been accused of being kind of peg before executives and other people in the media have often grumble that Netflix doesn't release its viewership.

Basically say whatever it wants really about the success of it shows at a time when it's plain to see that traditional TV ratings of failing and also at time when Netflix is spending billions of dollars in outbidding those TV companies are getting exclusive access to content and so on and another big is when they're outside research into next days in the past the the shows of it says a most successful.

It's usually basis bases on a metric which is essentially the number of households that watch least 2 minutes of a show within the first month of its release this timer and then what they say about that is all that's all well and good but what happens if you've got a really strong first episode and everyone hates it and your windows everyone watches are a point of you bake off for Strictly Come Dancing all over so this time.

It's release data on a different metric which is the number that the app.

What's the total hours that we've use within their 28-day? So it gives you much more of the picture as to the series that Netflix you was actually gonna finish then.

Love ok.

Well.

That's the streaming giant that's been shaking things up now.

Let's turn to the political news outlets that have in their own way being shaking things up Jack the media show before back in 2017 at that point you had the most shared piece of any news outlet during the 2017 election but first of all don't know what is the London economic YouTube to regular people but what just happened really and why they were suffering the effects of Mark explosion without without all the dragon and the complicated.

And effectively grown into what I would describe as a metropolitan publication with a metropolitan mindset so so we be past progressive and liberal in viewpoints, but we also understand and Solutions as well, and how do you say your metropolitan does that mean that you're not interested in appealing to readers who Redwall areas? That's not have interesting anywhere really it's a newspaper but we are here to serve.

That's that may be true.

Yeah, ok well.

You do have also had a deliberately tabloid feel I was very tempted in the office earlier to open the store watch naked man strolled down London street, before his semi-closed panel knocked a cyclist off bike fantastic, but that's really is that how you make money.

No, not although.

I think the tabloid nature of the newspaper tabloid is polluted by back by the red tops and really what we were doing from the start was trying to make more complicated matters such as politics and economics accessible and obviously you like any newspaper and lifestyle pages.

You know we obviously try and kisses abroad that so I think that actually taken out you using the tabloid format with people what is your business model.

Yes, so we make money through advertising and and then that can do various forms, but effectively we've been.

What's self-sustainable for a number of years and have been looking to be able to sort the team on the back of becoming increasingly popular how Novara Media covers it's cos because because in ideological terms.

You do come and practice what you preach.

Don't start from jye will freelancers we pay freelancers staff pensions and that sounds quite hard.

How do you do that? Well? We have no advertising except YouTube Aaron, 85 + percent is a monthly supporters who are quite happy to make regular payments to work.

And that's not that you need when you think about the Guardian so you know the garden is free to read but they say would you like to support our journalism because we are quite distinct from say the male or the Express they do it's different and there's a significantly large audience to pay for it and they also paid for the idea that other people can read this content without there being a table and so we operate on quite similar and yes work and I think my message to people who were sceptical about that you want to isn't there is a huge appetite for new ideas new ways of doing things different kind of content.

We might see in in Legacy media and you can you can find your audience as the Greatest Day by Kevin Kelly from Wired magazine and many of the lessons in sure I recommended.

But I have to say to ask I mean like the London economic you did very well under the Jeremy Corbyn bounce.

So what has happened to your traffic since then last year was the best double.

I think Jeremy Corbyn is why we've grown.

You know what I actually look at it as a generational cleavage so if you look at the Sun newspaper after Murdoch comes into the British Market from the late 60s 70s big part of the market baby boomers millennials gen z and we say we know where you feel the media school ensure.

We want to craft stories and and an offer insights where you where you like.

I'm going to go and watch any with you so we have an audience right now and it's 3020 but we want to grow and when they're in their 40s 50s making decisions having influence Media reaction.

I think it's really interesting websites really well actually, I think they are makes a really good points about generational and leadership fellowship and people who go online I mean our newspaper.

I think is red wards and broad scope of Ages actually young readers have student leaders have all the way they can go to get the newspapers for 65p for they can also go online.

And I think what Legacy Media what newspapers have done.

It's a really improve our online offering direct Response but actually weathermeter is going so yeah, we have an app.

We have a much Fuller online offer and I think then obviously we did 510 years ago and I think that shows in the website today GB news and Reuben murder with DVR also gambling in a way similar way on on finding a small but dedicated audience similar way to another in that sense.

What do you make with that approach there racing on Sunday so few people watching that the the ratings financially fails to register a single view a bit yeah that their seemingly going after.

A very specific audience and the sea of DVD been here just said that he can try to downplay when people say they're gonna break with media or right leaning Media the same time he excels against what he considers to be kind of the milk Media establishment and obviously it's most famous presenter at the moment is probably Nigel Farage that obviously there's been a little bit of invasion over there.

Maybe it's second famous most famous presenter the former BBC and drastically step down the other day and then kind of bits out the Channel 4.

It's low budget and technical glitches and other issues that he had so seemingly see blood in the water use UK which is the UK arm of Murdoch's news corp has decided to revive its plans for a TV channel now a few months back.

It brought a top US TV executive over to have a look at that running a TV channel TV news channel would look like in the UK and back in spring vegetable after much for the cost of running a news channel with wouldn't make much sense to financially and then GBGB seems to be in a falling apart at the seams and suddenly and then we will also Piers Morgan dramatically walking out of GMB Good Morning Britain had a change of heart and Piers on boards and there seems to be an appetite there again.

He's got a global deal actually with them up and boxing in the us as well.

So they will be back ok.

So let's let's come back to the political events this week.

Kiss down.

There has been in Brighton this week for the Party Conference let's get this how well do you think star Matt and his team handle the media?

That's a very good question.

I would have said before today.

They have been some teething problems.

I think they've and Eva conference we would have expected the kind of a big interview with the Guardian and he did something at the Sunday Mirror but I hate the garden that wasn't really a major he's just I think he he's struggled actually I think because of the pandemic and because I just wear with the Labour Party I think he has struggled actually to have a sort of a proper hearing from the press and I think that part of that is because he hasn't been able to break through.

I'm due to covered but also because he hasn't really as he's better today.

Got his house and order and I think today I think that's been a slight game-changer in terms of the media regarding sweet bar Harry Cole obliterated the sun you said today long way to go but at least the opposition are finally having a profit credibility.

That's really interesting response.

I think the man so.

Yeah, I think he is as Harry says it's a long way to go but I think he's delivered a speech today that shows that he is serious about winning and general election that was a bit more, but I mean what's your view on this with Jane Hartlepool which I think people in the major.

Don't really say it's the politician bedtime patients with brexit now tends to be because of policy and communications and policy to policy becomes right.

I think it's at it setup for hiding to nothing in terms of communication strategy more generally now approach.

Which was 20 years ago and I think it'll be it'll be can't work.

I think that would be foolish however.

I also I had leaving conference last night was people having these debates one where the other 15 power minimum wage.

I think it's absolutely for care workers that was the original point in the Labour Party and then I look at my phone and associated from the reality speech speech bubble, but I don't see them mastering the me.

In a way that will be necessary play because we know labour in this country have trouble with the Tories majority of cute, but the wind power and right now, so I don't see it and tool with new media.

Ok that help that might change for example.

Do you think he needs a political big hitter from the press for example to work with him? I mean blairhead Alastair Campbell from the miracle being had the Guardian what do you think? He's really experienced he's got none expensive labour with government they work for Tony Blair after.

After Tony Blair power, I think that's allowed so the Jeremy Corbyn support is a professional thunderstorm sounds like that.

You know that you could have made him up tomorrow with the pandemic and what sort of getting his policies and audible actually I don't need another name for a big a big TV name anymore.

I don't have much of getting their message right and getting that sort of cut through I think it is about credibility and I think he's made a big step today in Getting Back Band around like Kevin Maguire for example.

You don't think that's necessary.

I don't think it's necessary alarm and from the Daily Mirror and there any days I think of a difference sense of actually Tony Blair was seen as the next prime minister is almost inevitable and it was a real lockington.

You still out with PS tomorrow? I think there is such a long way to go.

I think we may see this time and needing to fight to elections if is possible allowing that because Boris Johnson is still pretty disgusting despite the terrible pandemic despite the fuel prices and so yeah, I don't think he can attract big names at the moment.

I don't think necessarily needs to I think he's got his own position and its own policies of his own team right to then be able to say right we can run you and your colleagues relationship with Jeremy Corbyn did you anyway help shape policy as you think or test media lines out rice to call me whatever Frank reality was Corbyn and his people was so overstretched with the challenges.

They faced.

It'll be internally and externally.

Have the time to do that kind of stuff that kind of intricate rebuttal building relationships with people who be useful they didn't do it and they should have done it and I didn't think you had such a panoply of brexit.

I think I think some of the stuff that came with the 2017 and 2019 to some of that but I don't think it was it was never really you know the way if it's party given to the cherry.

I think he's going to leave the difference between stammer and where is it when start when the label in Alastair Campbell mid90s play the big roll changes right image of that in the last week, they had John Prescott they got the trade unions on side people forget that actually glad to people on a journey.

It was a popular journey with mass consent and I think stomach overstepped the Mark last week and his initial kind of proposal which I think he needs to learn you can't believe people in a way that wasn't even been done by Tony Blair ok.

There was a little bit of time with you and politics match but tell me in terms of Corbyn and his team any you did you have contact with them allied with them? No not at all.

You know as a newspaper.

I think we were we were born out of things but we were purposely in a line with the liver pate, then we're not allowed to to now.

We're just as likely to talk to Rory Stewart and Sean Barry as we are too.

Do any of the corbyn's shadow cabinet cabinet so that the papers on the Left the mirror and the Guardian say will will always support the Labour leader and the papers not right the Daily Mail the Telegraph etc will support the conservative leader but it's not always is not always the case is it obviously the late 90s early noughties and the Murdoch press supported bland famously you know it's very close relationship.

I don't I think that's slightly different now.

I don't think pierced and labour leader needs the Murdoch press anymore actually I mean I think you know they can I don't think it's that Crusoe it's obviously important, but the garden I think didn't explicitly back the Labour Party and the last election election before so it's more complicated.

I think that's that.

The differences because of social media you don't just need newspapers back in and I think it's much more open what about on the conservative side.

I mean I think they will I think when it comes down to it when I had to sort of raise a smile think a couple of weeks ago and when Boris Johnson is social care plans and obviously big taxwise and now there's a huge thundering comet peas in The Telegraph saying that they couldn't possibly see how this could have a person that was sort of the end of conservatism and interesting in 5-minutes a good debate by that Boris Johnson has you can actually get taxed twice as fast as party when it comes to it.

You know 4 weeks on 4 weeks to go to election he's going to get the backing of the day.

You know he'll get the back in the Daily Telegraph I think that's don't tell me this shows that top of the programme how much way, do you think the press actually do hold over public opinion anyway?

I think we still do we still do but not to the extent where I think in 97 and 2001 it really did matter that sort of getting the sun support and did I wouldn't say Swan the election as I think the sun always saw the way the wind was blowing.

I think it's just more diffuse now because of social need more evenly spread that she's always have time for today.

Thank you to all my guests Lara Reilly immediate editor add Insider Jane Merrick policy editor at the I paper aaronbastani co-founder of November Media Jack Pete founder of the London economic.

Thank you.

All don't forget you can catch up with pasta dishes of the show via the BBC Sounds app the media show will be back at the same time next week.


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